[BALTIMORE COMIC CON:] KIRKMAN VS. BENDIS: THE FUTURE OF COMICS

September 27, 2008 on 10:00 pm | In Baltimore Comic-Con | No Comments

Arguably the most anticipated panel of the convention—evident by the filled-to-capacity room—C.B. Cebulski started off the event introducing the two stars of the show: Brian Michael Bendis and Robert Kirkman.

The room fell into an immediate hush as the panel started. The format basically stands as an open forum. Cebulski congratulated Kirkman on his partnership at Image and gave a little background info on the company.

Giving a little background info Cebulski talked about the video Kirkman made online about a call to arms for creators and the follow up video Bendis made in response.
“I would just like to say, ‘F–k you, Brian Bendis,’” said Kirkman to much applause and laughter.
“F–k you,” Bendis retaliated.
This continued for another minute before Bendis responded with, “That’s a good point.”

[EDITOR'S NOTE: WHAT FOLLOWS ARE HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE PANEL. BE SURE TO KEEP CHECKING WIZARDUNIVERSE.COM FOR MORE!]

“I’d like to start by saying that Brian is a friend,” said Kirkman. “We’re good buddies, we’ve known each other for a while. And I hope nothing we say tonight skews that away.”

Kirkman recapped his now infamous video—and initial instigator for the debate—for those who did not see it.
“Part of the thing I wanted to do was stand up and say going all creator owned can be done. It’s not easy. I’m not saying it can work for everything but it can be done and it should be done. The other thing was that I figured something like that happening could benefit the industry as a whole. I think the bigger companies are catering to a locked in fanbase that has dwindled as times goes forward. I don’t think I have all the answers, of many answers, but I just wanted to point that out.”

Bendis said his video expressed his agreement with Kirkman to an extent.
“But in your diatribe—or whatever we’ll call it—you were using yourself as an example, and I was worried that we are breathing rarified air. They are certain creators who are able to do both and who are successful at both. We are able to do something that others are not able to do. So, in your call to arms I was worried that what you were expressing wasn’t accurate. That truthfully most creator owned books fail. Should you not make them? No, but know that you might fail. I don’t want to be Debbie Downer but I wanted to be clear that you can go ahead and make your own comic, but know that unless god shines down on you it’s not going to be successful.
“Know that going in,” continued Bendi. “Torso never sold more than 200,000 copies. I just broke even. Thankfully years later the book found an audience. But I didn’t care [about the difficulties] because I have mental issues. I want to put that image out that that’s the reality for most creator owned books. You can’t live on it.”

“You’re exactly right,” concurred Kirkman. “I had those exact same days on Battle Pope and Tech Jacket and all those other gems collected now at Image Comics. My argument is that rarified air is not as rare as you say. There’s definitely a cycle where a creator works as hard as they can to breathe that rarified air. You start in creator owned work, you work your way up there. But they stay on corporate books when they don’t want it.”

“But that’s one cycle, not the only cycle,” retailed Bendis.

“I do not think you can argue that there are creators than can do Green Arrow for the rest of their life and still stay viable creators,” said Kirkman.

Bendis said he disagreed with that because some creators have no interest at all in superhero comics.
“There are many creators who don’t adhere to the cycle you stand by. It’ just like showbiz; there’s no right and normal way to break in. In our field, just like many creative fields, there’s no rhyme or reason why anyone’s successful. Just because it worked for you this way doesn’t mean it has to work for everyone this way. I actually feel there are a lot of people who are gigantic fans of these iconic characters. You know who I want on Green Arrow? The guy who wants to be on Green Arrow. The guy who f–king loves Green Arrow.”

“My stance is talking to the guy who is doing Green Arrow because he needs that paycheck and Green Arrow is selling because of him because he built himself up to that level,” said Kirkman. “I’m not saying there’s only one course to take in the comic book career but if you’re sitting there and you’re unhappy…
“There is an entire wealth of creator owned people out there making good money. And there are people at Marvel and DC that are making money a fraction of what they could be making [as independent creators].”

“There’s no artist I work with that I wouldn’t kill to make a creator owned series with,” said Bendis.

“But you can do it Brian,” said Kirkman.

“I’ve been doing it since 1999,” responded Bendis.

“You’ve been dabbling,” retaliated Kirkman. “You did Powers, and then you did nine Avengers titles.”

“For writers, it’s a lot easier [to work in both] because a writer can produce more in a month than an artist,” said Bendis. “John Romita Jr. and Mark Bagley are the unique guys who can produce a comic book and do two more. This money you speak of…For literally as long as I’ve been making comics, to pretend that for sure you’re going to sell this, it’s wrong. All of the market share proves otherwise. Even if you’re at Image and even at if you’re at Dark Horse and they’re good books, they’re good quality. It takes a while for the money to start really pumping and it’s just because of the nature of the beast. The buzz doesn’t affect your book for the first six months or the first year. When the trade comes out, that’s when it starts rolling. The market place as it is structured right now is set up for books like this to fail. And it sucks that it is. Make a comic because you want to. But if you’re planning on quitting your job, it’s probably isn’t going to happen. I just wanted to put it out there that what you’re putting out there is almost irresponsible because it’s selling the best version. When the reality I see isn’t the same. My point of view is that I need to do both. I don’t feel like I dabble. I feel like I spend a great amount of time doing both types of books. I think the experience of creating Powers and creating Ultimate Spider-Man really helped me. I like the fact that in Ultimate Spider-Man there’s certain things I can’t do because it forces creativity.
Bendis gave an example saying that he can’t swear in Spidey and finds ways to work around it. And when it becomes too much he goes “to Powers and I swear and swear and swear.”

“It’s very hard to do creator owned work,” said Kirkman. “I’m never going to say it isn’t hard to do creator owned work.”

At one point in the conversation, Kirkman began joking about Bendis’ multiple Avengers titles.
“Did you announce Dark Avengers? That’s amazing. Another Avengers title.”
As Kirkman went on, Bendis jokingly pretended to scratch his eye with his middle finger.

Kirkman said that one of the things that upset him about Bendis’ video was Bendi saying that his work at Marvel helped his sales on Walking Dead.

“Not what I said,” said Bendis. “There’s many reasons why books are successful. One of the reasons I think Walking Dead is more successful than Invincible—even though Invincible appeals more to the mainsteam market—is because of Marvel Zombies. I’m very aware that my constant showcase at Marvel for my illustrious talent is a commercial for Jinx and Powers. When Dark Avengers #1 comes out a handful of people might like it and go, ‘What else has this guy done?’”

Kirkman then asked for a slide to be put on the screen. While technical difficulties occurred, the conversation went on until the slide came up.

“I’m not saying that people aren’t aware that creator owned comics that exist,” said Kirkman. “I’m saying they’re unaware that they can make creator owned comics and making a living.”

“Some people just can’t afford to do it and it just stops them cold,” said Bendis. “Working at Marvel or DC and working on something that you own at the same time is a very special thing.”

The slide eventually came up and showed a graph of comparison of sales of Walking Dead and Marvel Zombies. Then the sales of Marvel Zombies 2 vs. Walking Dead.

The argument turned back to whether Walking Dead Sales were affected by Marvel Zombies.
Bendis pointed out that the graph did not consider Trade Paperback sales. Bendis compared the charts to a Republican and Democrat debate, where each see the graph as confirming their points.

Another chart showed the life of Walking Dead and life of Invincible. Bendis points out the dip in sales of the first three issues saying that all comic books drop in the second issue.
“Most people can’t survive the three issue dip,” said Bendis.

“I think most people not being able to survive that dip is a broad generalization,” retaliated Kirkman.

“Most books never continue,” said Bendis. “It hurts man. It hurts to put out a book and the world goes, ‘Don’t care.’”

The next chart showed the sales of Bendis’ books. Kirkman said that the sales of his Marvel books do not affect the sales of Powers.
Bendis said that the chart is incomplete because it doesn’t include trade sales and that online numbers are inaccurate.

Kirkman then immediately brought up a chart showing the online numbers vs. actual numbers. An argument ensued over the validity of the online numbers. Kirkman pointed out that the different between the online numbers and actual numbers remained consisted, thereby making the overall results—not directly affected by just numbers—the same.

An audience member chimed in with support of Bendis’ argument, saying he bought Walking Dead trades after reading Kirkman’s Marvel work.

Nick Barrucci said that a chart showing financial gain from leaving a big company would be very effective and would show in black and white numbers how coming to creator owned work would benefit.

As the forum ended a fan asked “What now?”

Bendis said his greatest hope is that now people will go back to their room and whether they agree with them or they don’t and just want to express themselves, they’d write or draw or create something amazing that would blow everyone’s mind.

The panel ended with Kirkman lifting Bendis off the ground in a bear hug.